Buying Advice

Sadly Lee a lot of what you point out, I think, is all too often absolutely correct.

But then retailers don't seem to care so long as they sell, or at least very few do especially the national chains and supermarkets. TBH I don't think they care much about customers at all really.

But I can assure you that manufacturers are "persuaded" to provide products that meet certain price points or AN Retailer wont stock the brand.

K.

kwatt wrote:
But I can assure you that manufacturers are "persuaded" to provide products that meet certain price points or AN Retailer wont stock the brand.

K.

Well yeah its simple business, you have to provide goods to supply demand and also create a demand.

Yesterday i`m changing a Beko module for the 4 time in under a year, the poor old lady said the shop told her it was a fabulous machine.

When I stopped laughing I agreed, Beko are paying me buckets of cash to repair it.

So its not all the Manufacturers fault, I love Beko, Samsung etc etc.

r600a wrote:OOOhh

How I love a woman with big feet

Bryan

If I put a pair of heels on, it almost takes me to being 6ft. (I am 5ft 11"), trying to buy shoes can be quite a nightmare let me tell you, especially since the demise of Saxone's. Their Big Tall & Small Dept had a good range of all sizes. Now one has to use mail order or buy a size 8 and get em stretched!

WQ

WQ, you need to start looking where the drag queens and transvestites buy their shoes...

On the garbage appliance front...

Just call be Value-For-Money Queen! I'd MUCH rather pay a bit more, get something a bit simpler (who actually USES 20 different wash programs after all?), and have it last over 10 years than keep replacing junk...

And it's not just washing machines... My Zannusi m/w oven is at last wearing out. It must be all of 21 years old, and starting to rust in the corners. The inside 'ceiling' warped and dropped off years ago (we just use a lid on bowls and things), and likewise the plastic knob off the handle, but we never bothered to replace it as these minor defects did not impede our use of the machine. However, the door is becoming increasingly difficult to shut (needs a damned good slam these days!), the digital display has a dead moth in it and all the labels that tell you what setting you have it on have worn away, and the rust is creeping out from the corners... It cost us £400 and a bit when we bought it, but has served us well. I'm dreading it going belly up. New 'super' ones seem to cost half as much, be twice as powerful, but one is lucky if they last a year!

The saga of my washing machine purchase is elsewhere on the forums... Wish me luck! ISE chosen and ordered!

The tumble dryer is a now elderly AEG, built in Germany, and also in excess of 20 years old. I'm hoping it too lasts a few more years. When it finally gived up its ghost I shall look at what ISE have to offer FIRST.

And don't get me started on sewing machines! OK, so these are my work and my life's blood, but there's a hell of a lot of cheap plastic crap masquerading under once respected names! I'm always advising people to try before they buy with sewing machines: it's a shame we cannot do the same with washing machines, ovens, tumble dryers, and other white goods!

From personl experience.....

I'd rather buy something second hand thats 10 years old rather than new.

Using cars as an example.

My old polo's cam belt broke. I fixed it for about £120 ( second hand head delivered to the door, also included the 'size 12 multi-splined bit' that I had to buy to remove the head). This is the most I've every paid out to fix a car. I also managed to fix everything else that went wrong due to the limited electronics.

If anything goes wrong on my Brava, I'm buggered. Everything is electronic.

It's the same with modern appliances. I'm probably one of the few that are willing to dismantle an appliance and am able to recognise what the problem is, despite virtually no traning in the field.

The upshot?

Everything is now disposable. Did you know you can't buy replacement parts for the engine in a Ford Ka? (Well you can, same engine as a Fiesta, but they won't tell you that!)

No body is willing to get their hands dirty, and until they are this situation wont' change. Sadly this means that people would rather throw money at symptoms rather than fix problems.

Kate XXXXXX wrote:WQ, you need to start looking where the drag queens and transvestites buy their shoes...

I think NOT! I shall stick to the Shoe Taylor Catalogue.

Heheheh...

Actually, when you get down to it, some of those 'differently gendered' folk are a lot of fun to work with, and have excellent taste. They don't all want to dress like Dame Edna or Danny La Rue all the time, and when they want to look more 'normal', they want ordinary shoes but in bigger sizes. There are places that cater for this as well as for the more outrageous stage kit.

Crusty, I know what you mean with some machines. There are a lot of older sewing machines out there that are simple, built like the Rock of Ages, and, with TLC along the road, will still be going when the electronic wizardry has withered and died. I'd probably not go there with cars (we tend to go for 2+ YO's with low mileage. Current one is a Toledo bought at just on 5 YO with very low mileage and a great price), nor a washing machine. At 10 years, my Whirlpoo was a heap, and has just been towed away for scrap. But my bought new in 1999 electronic wizard of a sewing machine has been a magical experience. Toigh as old boots, stitch quality to die for, and has rarely refused to sew something. For really tough stuff (like the hood of a kit car!) I used a 1928 Singer hand crank. My old treadle and the other hand cranks still have another 1200 years in them...

A lot depends on what you get and what you are prepared to pay for. As with anything, you need to do the research and, if al all possible, try before you buy. How come you can'tdo this with expensive purchases like washing machines and fridges when you can with cars and sewing machines?

I'm hopeful that my new ISE5 stands up to the pecs. So far it's looking good! Better than my original Whirlpoo, which shed the drive band part way through the first wash!

Hello everyone, another post from someone related to the trade, since I am an apprentice for an award winning kitchen designer in Yorkshire, I think this is relevant.
We only deal with Neff and Miele appliances, of course we can order the other cheap 's**t' as my boss puts it.
Time after time I've heard and read of people buying cheap appliances and can't see the point in it, since the humble washing machine especially has such a large job to do and is in constant use, it does get some wear and tear, and the cheaper they are they'll fail quicker.
So why does £1000 for a washing machine sound daft? Everyone I've asked says its a daft amount, they'd rather have low end Beko or Indesit tat.
Of course you pay your money and you get what you get, but out of all the brands, Miele is the most trustworthy, theres nothing doubtful about it since they are designed and built to last, if it were a car it'd be a Rolls Royce I reckon.

Besides, I can see why there's such people as kitchen designers, because that kitchen in the money saving link looks appaling!
I definitely could do a better job than that with me eyes closed!

I don't think it can be described as a swindle, it's just a fact, the way the world works. People are in the most part not too smart. The way our society works is everyone works in self-interest, and I don't think manufacturers or retailers can be blamed for making low quality machines. I'm starting to sound crazy now, but it is the whole economic system, if anything, that is the swindle. We could all save time if we just made the best quality machines.

After having had a Hoover auto for nearly 20 years and then three in the last six years I feel hugely let down by the quality of washing machines available for a reasonable price.
We currently have a two year old Hotpoint, the bearings failed after 18 months and I got such a snotty attitude from them that I got a local chap to repair it. This guy was very informatitive and told me that my Hotpoint was in fact an Indesit which I would not of bought if I had any idea.
Talking to friends and relatives it appears that few keep a machine beyond three years mainly because of uneconomical repair costs. How green is that ?
All I want is a machine that will last a few years without too many problems. So why dont the makers understand that ?
When I had the old Hoover it broke down every year or so but I never had a repairer out telling me it was rubbish or quoting £100+ to fix it but I have had that with the last three which were Hotpoint, Zanussi and a newer Hoover that I was told was in fact a Candy.
I feel mugged off

If it's any consolation, you're not alone.

But there's one thing that you have to consider at least, what's a reasonable price for a (primarily) mechanical device that is expected to run for years without servicing or intervention?

For perspective, we buy cars and we expect them to run for X miles or for Y period and then require a service to maintain them and, apparently that's fine. But with appliances they are simply expected to run and, run without intervention or service.

Sure you can build machines that will do this but you can't do so cheaply. Good engineering, design and build costs money and to get a machine that will last years doesn't cost a three hundred quid. It costs a lot more.

The mugging, in my opinion, is that manufacturers (but more many of the large "cut the prices" retailers) aren't honest enough to tell people the truth. They'd much rather just flog you whatever tat is on special that month and that there happens to be a kickback on. Or, it's easy as it's a recognised brand name so people just buy it on the strength of that thinking that if XXXX makes it then it has to be good.

It's smoke and mirrors.

We try as best we can to inform people of what's out there, what it is and how good it is. The problem is, for us, that it would appear that a whole bunch of people don't want to know, they'd much rather get the lowest price possible and deal with the cost of that, often bitching about it and how their consumer rights have been violated, after they pay the lowest price they could find.

I'm really, really sorry if that seems harsh but it is sadly the truth and the old caveat of, "if it seems to good to be true, it probably is" was never more pertinent than here.

Every day we have people on the phone or emailing in saying that they've had the same problems, three machines in five years, two machines, five in ten years, failed after 18 months and on and on it goes...

There are solutions and we've done what we can to provide those but people have to be prepared to invest in a quality appliance, or appliances, to avoid this. In the end, you pretty much get what you pay for.

Sorry if this post doesn't sit well with some.

K.

I thoroughly agree entirely with what you are saying Kwatt.

Funnily enough when I was in my local news agent's today paying my papers, they remarked that they still have the Almond Colored Hotpoint dishwasher, & washing machine that I sold them some 16yrs ago from my days when I worked for our local regional electricity board. Although the washer cabinet is a little rusty on the bottom, it is still going strong. (Sighs.. I feel old now) I bet its modern equivalent wouldn't last a day out of warranty.

WQ

I must admit when i worked for a large electrical retailer a few years ago i made sure i steered clear of the white good department, not because i couldent give good advice but because i honestly could not hand on heart sell some of the old dears/old boys/low income familys the cheaper machines they wanted as i knew they would have nothing but trouble and i didnt want to sell a substandard product

As some of the engineers in this thread have said it costs money to build a quality product but the white good is seen as something to ignore and just to pick up as cheap as possible

I have to admit im guilty of it myself, id rather spend 500 quid and a amplifier/tv/subwoofer for my car then £500 on a washing machine, however as i have always admired engineering in any way-shape or form i can see the shortcomings of the cheaper machines so when i buy my own place i will try and avoid them and go for the machine that is engineered the best at the price point i can afford

The sad fact is that as it is common for every house to have a plethora of consumer durables a washing machine or any white good for that matter is taken for granted and expected so the manufacturers have ahd to drag the cost down (i do like to think though that white goods designers are still out there in these large company's trying to get them to bring in better build quality/find ways to make the components last longer)

I think if you were to sit two machines next to each other and show the difference in engineering then it may open peoples eyes (i vaguely remember a tv show called the secret life of machines did this back in the 80's with a hoover something from the 60's that looked like a tank and then a machine from the 80's thats components looked like they were made of tin foil, ironic thing is now people would probably kill for the engineering from the 1980's agian as it probably urinates from a great height over whats on the market today)

In my humble opinion, your spot-on.

I have found :

The better the rating -> the higher the price -> the shorter the lifespan.

This seems to be the way.

I`ve started recommending people to buy cheap and expect it to fail, at least you haven`t spent a lot.