Dishwasher Help Forum

[Diplomat]

I am the owner of the above dishwasher. THe model has proven to be particularly troublesome. The water inlet valve failed last year and was replaced with a generic item from a local spares shop and this has worked very well. The pipe attached to the valve that prevents flooding has been stoppered with a bung

I recently replaced the impeller because it failed to empty the used water out of the machine and, having cured that problem I am faced with another. This is the problem on which I'd like help.

The machine fills with water, but never stops. I contacted my local spares shop and they highlighted the problem as being caused when I tipped the machine foward to fit the pump. They recommended that I check the drain line by the electric inlet valve and that there shouldn't be water coming out - and there wasn't. However, the machine still keeps filling and filling, never realising when it has reached the desired level.

I have a fair level of competence when it comes to things technical but I cannot see how the machine cuts the water off when it is full and therefore am at a loss about hom to fix it. The spares man said that it operates on air pressure, but something must switch off the valve.

I even gave up and called a man in to fix the problem. He advised I bought a new machine and charged £20 for the privaledge. He didn't even look at it. The machine is in bits in the kitchen but I am being kept up at night by my wife's teeth grinding together.

Hope someone can help.

[Simon46]

Did the new valve have a diaphragm on it to which the hose connects?

[Diplomat]

Not obviously but it has been functioning well for the last year. It is only since replacing the pump and tilting the dishwasher that the failure to cut out has become apparent. The tube that was connected to the old valve is now dangling free with an old pencil shoved in the end. Could this be causing the problem?

[Dave_Conway]

Could this be causing the problem?

Probably not but you have effectively disabled the anti-flood protection that would stop the dishwasher flooding your kitchen were it to develop a leak so I would start with purchasing the correct valve then sort out the overfill problem afterwards.

Dave.

[Diplomat]

Thank you. The valve will stop the kitchen flooding, so will it solve the problem as, ultimately, the kitchen would flood if I were to leave it unattended.

I'll do that in the next few days. What do you suggest I do then?

[Penguin45]

Look, the problem with your machine is related to the water matrix under the left hand side of the casing. When it starts to get clogged up, water level control is affected. Your actions so far have been to disconnect the water valve from the flood protection system, as the clogging increases, the water level control becomes increasingly less reliable and will give the symptons you have described.

The matrix and the valve should be replaced at the earliest opportunity and the machine should not be used until then. Parts will come to about £80+VAT; if you do not understand how a water hydraulic/air pressure system works I would get professional help as soon as possible.

This is the kind of amateur dabbling that gives the professional repairers the willies........

Whatever you do next, pull the plug first

Regards,
Penguin45.

[Guest]

Thank you for your ideas. The term 'amateur dabbling' resonates through my mind as being a rather unfortunate phrase to describe a course of action undertaken as a result of the incompetence of the last 'professional' that came around to attempt to fix the dishwasher. There are many descriptions of the word 'Professional' but it simply refers to the fact that the person charges for their services and that the person performing the services is regulated by a trade body or organisation that is not optional. E.g. Quantitiy surveyors must be a member of the RICS or they are not allowed to practice, ditto doctors, lawyers and teachers.

Had I called out a 'professional' for the last 2 repairs, a valve which cost me £3 and a new impeller which cost me £16, I would have had 2 call-out fees, 2 labour charges including removal from the fitted kitchen to undertake repairs and all this would have come to £150+. I would have then replaced the dishwasher with another fitted unit on his advice at £350+. All in all, I'd have spent £500. My current expenditure is £19. Therefore, 'amateur dabbling' has saved me, currently, £481.

In my opinion there is no reason why, with appropriate safety precautions, 'amateur dabbling' should be viewed as a negative activity. It potentially saves money and ultimately saves the horrendous wastage of buying another machine to replace one that is beyond economic repair if labour charges and call out fees are factored in. I have always believed in this philosophy and have undertaken many other repair projects including rebuilding the entire air conditioning system of my old Vauxhall Carlton which now works perfectly well and would have cost £1600+ to pay someone else to do. Cost to me, £200.

Clearly, I know my own limitations hence I called out the repair man but when they know less than I do, I am less than impressed. I am becoming very tired of this 'throw away culture'. I work bloody hard for my money and I'm not easily parted from it. I am sure that most people reading this would want to rid the repair trade of cowboys.

We had a Bosch washing machine that I identified as having a circuit board problem as one of the components had clearly melted. I called out a repair man who admitted he didn't have the necessary testing equipment. He was there for an hour and didn't charge a penny as he couldn't fix it. I gave him a very large 'drink' and then called the Bosch Team who fixed it in 10 minutes. It wasn't cheap but Bosch paid half after several letters of complaint. An altogether better experience.

[Penguin45]

The advice and information so freely given by the appliance engineers on UKW is based on the understanding that the recipient has an understanding of the workings of his machine and that the advice will be followed correctly to allow a safe repair to be made.

Assuming that you do understand the water level control system of your dishwasher, you have so far knowingly fitted an incorrect part and blanked off the flood protection system. The appliance is currently unsafe and I would go so far as to say that you have acted irresponsibly.

Furthermore, had the flooding problem led to an insurance claim and inspection, the engineers report would have left you uninsured.

I find it particularly distressing that you have valued your hard earned cash above the safety of your machine and property.

Regards,
Penguin45.

[Guest]

Thank you for your opinions. It would, as you correctly suggest, be madness to run an appliance without testing. Hence the discovery of the fault. Throughout your responses I note that you seem to consider my approach concerning. You must bare in mind I have two degrees in the physical sciences and my original posting asked how the water was cut off. The question has now been answered. There are a number of logical ways that water could be cut off in a domestic appliance, the use of flow meters, the detection of pressure changes, time w.r.t flow, light transmission, float chambers, electrical conductivity, mass change. These are all obvious to anyone with a scienific background and I am particularly interested in automotive technology given my background.

My simple question seemed to launch a tyrade of abuse about how I should leave it to the experts. Go to Halfords, buy a distributor cap and I am not told to leave it alone in case of an electric shock, or likewise don't change your car wheel or it may fall off and kill you. 'Supercaution' is a current epidemic. Caution is common sense.

[farmboy]

IMHO I don't think anyone has been abusive to you here, from my perspective, if I were to give you detailed instructions on how to repair your machine and you then suffered an injury in doing so, I would be legally liable for giving you that info in the first place, that's why many contributors to this site give limited info in these public forums.

It's clear that you're very lucky that you tested your machine rather than let it run overnight as the money you've saved on repair bills would have been wiped out straight away. As the Penguin has said, the problem is most likely with the water tank in the side, so you either need to replace it or fit a couple of additional kits to the machine that will control the water levels from a different location, this kit also comes with a new inlet valve which the guys here should be able to supply you.

I have one observation, please don't take this the wrong way - clearly you are a well educated and intelligent individual but why when you decided to replace the valve did you not replace it with an identical part? You surely must have realised that the pipe fitted on the top was there for a reason, after all if you fitted a new part to your car and had a hose left over would you shove a pencil up it & drive ?

[Guest]

...because the repair shop from whom I intended to purchase the part said that the flood protection rarely works and you will not therefore be at a disadvantage by fitting a generic item. They also said that the correct part would take a fortnight to arrive and we had a dinner party the next day. I will go and order the correct part as the consensus seems that this is a good idea.

Thanks agaim

[Guest]

After some considerable time of reflection and reading up on the matter in hand, I fixed the problem. The actual cause of the fault was a small length of tubing that links the filling chamber to the pressue switch located underneath the door. The cost of repair was nothing. The reason for failure was the fact that the tube was impossibly stretched and clipped inadequately. The fix involved a lenghth of windscreen washer tubing and a jubilee clip. Whilst I was there, I rinsed out the filling chamber with strong detergent and dried it with a hairdrier to avoid pressure losses due to partial pressue of water vapour interfering with the pressure switch operation.

For those out there one important message; find out how things operate and the answer to the problem lands at your feet. The back page of the Haynes workshop manual in Halfords solved my problem and, as the required section was on the back cover, I didn't even have to buy it!

Good luck with whatever problem you have!