Washing Machine Help Forum

My Hotpoint WMF720 washing machine has developed a fault, just one month outside of its 12 month warranty. Nice.

It's been stopping with F-11 in the display, and these 5 lights flashing quickly too: Delay Start; Mini Load; Reduce Crease; Super Wash; Start/Pause. Occasionally I've had a F-08 error too.

Watching it run, I noticed it a couple of times filling with water to up to two-thirds of the glass window, which I assume to be overfilling? Googling these symptoms & the error codes suggested that the Pressure Switch (or pipe to it) might be to blame.

Opening the machine and disconnecting the pipe to Pressure Switch at the top end only, I found it hard (but not impossible} to blow down it with mouth pressure. I wanted to remove it fully to clean, but couldn't work out how to access the obstructed lower end. So I used an 'air duster' aerosol to force gas down the pipe (didn't go too wild!) to clear any blockage. It did seem easier to blow down (by mouth) afterwards.

Removing the Pressure Switch itself, mouth pressure whilst using an ohmmeter across two pairs of the three contacts did give a two stage contact, I assume one being 'normal fill' and the second being 'too full'?

Putting back together, I hoped the blow-through of the pipe had fixed it but the fault recurs intermittently. It even stopped a straight spin (with F-11 again) which confuses me, as it shouldn't involve water level, I'd have thought? There's also been some loud clicking from the front electronic control panel. Perhaps I've not noticed it before, but I thought these were silent electronic controls, unlike the electro-mechanical whirring clockwork switches of old?

My only assumption is that the Pressure Switch, although seemingly working, may be requiring excessive pressure to trigger. If anyone can make sense of these symptoms, I'd be very grateful.

Just over 12 months is not to bad for a low end 100% Indesit machine.

F11 is not specifically a pressure switch error, it is supposed to be a pump/non draining error. If it is emptying perfectly within say 20 to 30 seconds after starting to drain then it could well be that the pressure switch is not opening correctly. Try running the machine on spin with the hose removed from the pressure switch.
As this machine is the above mentioned Indesit it has the awful sealed drum so you cannot access the lower end of the pressure chamber to clean, it is moulded into the drum. The pressure switches and the electronics on these are known to be weak so either could be at fault.


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iadom - Thanks for the prompt reply. I'm a bit disheartened to read your comments about the quality of this machine. It wasn't the cheapest I could have bought by quite a margin. My previous Indesit lasted 15 years!

Anyway, broken it is. I tried running the machine with the hose disconnected, as you suggested. The spin is timed at 16 mins, and somewhere around 6 mins into this the F-11 fault recurred, whilst the drum was only doing intermittent, slow turns and before any serious spinning had started.

Does this mean the Pressure Switch is not to blame? I'm guessing that electronic control modules will be too pricey to try?

Worth trying a pressure switch,.

One more reason why most of the trade dislike Indesit is the way their sub standard pcb's have to be replaced. PCB, £100, smart card, £20, card reader needed to use the smart card to program the pcb, £100.

The Indesit Company engineers do this with dedicated software on their laptops.

PS. A half decent machine starts at between £450 & £500, a top quality machine £800+.

Worth trying a pressure switch,.

Does that mean it's still possibly the switch to blame? At only £12, I'd happily give it a go, but I was thinking that the fact the error occurs on a Spin cycle with the pipe disconnected, ruled that out?

I'd noticed what appeared to be a 'Digit Display Arcadia', what I have, online for £56. Would that replace the electronics, if they were to blame, or are you saying there's other kit required to then 'program' it?!

As an aside, if all else fails, what would you buy as a replacement in the quality price brackets you describe? I do realise that the price in pounds of white goods has stayed static over 10 or 20 years, meaning in real terms they've become much cheaper, and seemingly poorer quality.

One last question. When I registered for my 12 month default warranty, they claimed to offer 5 years of free parts cover. Would engineer charges make this a worthless in terms of saving if say the electronics have failed?

If you disconnect the hose from the pressure switch then it should be 'open' which is the correct condition it should be in when the drum is empty, so if it fails when the hose is disconnected on a drain/spin cycle then it could well be faulty. Its not unknown for a pressure switch to cause the odd F08 as well. The list price of the pressure switch is £16.99, make sure you are buying a brand new, genuine article.
Also there are two or three different WMF720's with different pressure switches. You would have to give us all the numbers from the sticker inside the door for us to identify the correct one.

The board you are referring to could well be the facia/display board. The main pcb that is the cause of most of the problems is down at the back.

You do have a five year parts warranty, a quick read of this thread will give you forewarning of the way you will be treated as a valuable customer ( cash generating opportunity )

Anyone for descaler

In the price bracket of £450/£500 I would look no further than Bosch. Of course you could do yourself a big, long term favour and buy an ISE or Miele, over a ten to twenty year period you would save a serious amount of money, and have a quality machine that would not keep breaking down or be totally BER after a couple of years.

Well if it still could be the pressure switch, I'll risk a few quid on one. If that fails, it's starting to sound like expensive electronics, possibly not worth the investment.

In the world of power tools, I've often bought and have always rated Bosch. I have a Miele vacuum cleaner, cost many times what you could have paid, but is a work of art really. It makes you realise how damn poor a lot of domestic electrical stuff is.

But the conundrum with expensive machines is whether, paying say three times the price, will give you as much life as three cheaper machines? Does the Miele end of the price scale come with long included warranties, or could I face a mechanical problem with a machine I could not so readily write-off, due to the high investment?

Just make sure you get the correct pressure switch.

On my patch I have hundreds of Hotpoint/Hoover/Zanussi/Bosch machines that are 20 to 25 years old or more, mostly all in sound condition.

Just think on this, these machines cost on average £200 to £300, 20 to 25 years ago. What was the cost of your average family car 25 years ago? Compare the cost of a family car today with the past and the cost of a low end washing machine and it will be obvious that the only way that a machine can be put in the shops for under £300 is to cut it to the bone and in many cases have it made in China etc.

Some Miele washing machines come with a 10 year warranty but ALL ISE machines have a full ten year warranty.

If you have to scrap a £300 machine every two or three years as opposed to having a machine that is guaranteed for 10 and will with care last 20 or more then the maths are simple. Add that to far better performance and reliability and you are quids in.

Very interesting. I suppose that when you praise long-lived Hotpoint/Hoover/Zanussi machines, it's because the machines they all built 20 years ago (in real terms, far more expensive than now) were to a higher build quality.

I need no convincing about Miele. ISE are new to me though, I've just read their website blurb and am wondering how much of this environmental impact stuff is genuinely intended, and how much is green sales blurb? Are ISE the top of the tree, in your opinion? Dare I ask what machine you have?!

My machine is an ISE1607.

Machines 20/25 years ago where not more expensive 'in real terms'. The price was a fair price for a decent machine. In 'real terms' basic machines today are far too cheap.

To follow the family car analogy, average price 25 years ago, under £5000, today £15000 to £20000. So in 'real terms' a good quality washing machine should be £800 to £1000 today.

Miele machines are top notch, but when needed their spares are criminally expensive and they will give out no technical information or help whatsoever.

Thanks for the warning about Miele, I didn't realise they were so costly for parts.

I take your point about the car price analogy. My old Indesit bought in 1997 was about £280. In modern money, I guess you could double that. I thought the lower modern price was to do with efficiency in design & manufacture, but it would appear to be a ruthless cutting back on components. Outwardly, I really liked the apparent build quality & functions of my 13 month old Hotpoint, but inwardly (having meddled inside) it seems all pared back. No 'hot fill' valves on most standard/basic machines, for example.

I wonder why no-one I know has heard of ISE? I'm hoping they're a long-term bet if I have to replace this machine?

I installed my first ISE machine in March 2006 and have several hundred of them in my area now.

As far as I am aware, 99% of those machines are still working well.

They are not mass market machines , depending on local independent agents and word of mouth, or by people visiting this or other industry related web sites.

PS. I still think it is worth trying a new pressure switch, give me the full details from the rating plate (sticky label) and I will confirm the correct part number for you.

iadom,

Thanks for the offer re the part, but I ordered one last night which appears to be the right one (Part no. C00259298). The model number is WMF 720 P (UK).R The serial no. is 103178683* 30661190085.

I hope you're not about to say this is the wrong part(!) but laundry pressure meant I wanted to try the only apparent/affordable fix, or else order something better equally fast.

On that subject, I've just been reading reviews of ISE vs Miele, and whilst both are loved, you're very right about the Miele parts cost. One owner saying Miele quoted £460 for a new motor, ie more than most would spend on a generic washing machine.

The only negatives about the ISE seems to be availability & servicing, some posts suggesting the rarity of this brand makes these less straightforward. But most seem to think they never break down, a 10 year parts & labour guarantee included would suggest this level of confidence, whilst the ISE website even talks of 'decades'. Not a claim you see on many white goods sites.

I am looking jealously at the ISE W256W, £900, a clunky (almost retro?) replacement for the 1607 you own. Are electronic displays a negative for longevity, as I can't see one? And how long do ISE machines take to get hold of? I have always bought quality traditionally (Granny was right: 'The best is cheapest in the long run') but have previously been unable to gauge whether higher price meant better quality. They all look good from the outside.

Anyway, I'll see what the pressure switch does.

Murphys Law or more likely Sods Law, but yes you have ordered the wrong part.

Your machine was manufactured in Poland.

Correct part number is C00145174.If the replacement switch has identical connections and is numbered the same then it should be safe to use to test, its likely to be set to different fill levels. If the connection numbers are different then you should not try it out.

Some areas of the country are better served than others, that much is true but the staff at ISE HQ do go out of their way to try and assist.

And you can contact them direct, either from the ISE website or on this forum.

Electronic displays are not a problem as such. I have several Hotpoint Microtronics from 25 years ago with full electronic displays working fine, its all down to quality. I think the circuit boards in a lot of Indesit machines are made in Romania, or used to be.

The site I ordered the part from took the model reference and lead to the C00259298 part number itself, so I'll be fairly peeved if you're right. I wrote down the many & various info on my pressure switch, does any of this change your conclusions?

25/02/11 8:15 85-60-330 1600218050
505KA101 11-14 2mA 5VDC 30ES / 11-16 2mA 5VDC 10E3


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