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Neff U1451N0GB Fan Element (New) Not Heating

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by thelearner » Mon Jan 23, 2017 5:45 pm

Neff U1451N0GB Double Oven.
Wife switched on lower oven on fan (one we use all the time) and it tripped the MCB, which reset OK. The fan was spinning but no heat, can still get heat from the grill/standard oven element, top oven working fine.

I have replaced the fan element previously, so ordered a new one.
Removed old element today, not bad condition but some deterioration on one part, and showing open circuit with multi meter.
Fitted new element, same as before - no heat. Removed new element again, checked continuity, fine resistance showing 25 ohms - I don't know what it should be.
I then fitted my multi meter to the spade connections with the element removed.
Switched on fan, started turning, 0 volts, and when I turned on temperature dial on oven multi meter showed 220 volts.

So oven seems to be supplying power to element, but element not heating.
Not sure what step to take next - return element and get another - or is there something else I could possibly be missing.
Changing this element is easy and can be done without removing the large heavy oven - but any other checks will need oven removed.

Grateful for any thoughts or advice.
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by electrofix » Mon Jan 23, 2017 7:25 pm

if an element is going to work it needs 220v but it also needs 0 volts
if both connections are fed 220v it wont work

looks like you are short of a neutral

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by thelearner » Mon Jan 23, 2017 7:49 pm

I did not test each connection individually - I only put the meter across both cables to see if there was voltage there.
I could test each connection but then need to have an earth connection available - not one readily available until oven is removed.

Any way to easily test this or diagnose fault? Any other possible causes? I am assuming it's unlikely the new element is faulty?

Appreciate any advice.
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by Martin » Mon Jan 23, 2017 8:04 pm

Oven selector switch contacts burnt out I would think.
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by timdowning » Mon Jan 23, 2017 8:30 pm

On some of these Bosch ovens, can't be sure on yours, there are two wires to one side of the element & just one for the other. Are you sure this isn't the case & one of the wires is hanging behind the panel??
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by thelearner » Mon Jan 23, 2017 8:46 pm

timdowning wrote:On some of these Bosch ovens, can't be sure on yours, there are two wires to one side of the element & just one for the other. Are you sure this isn't the case & one of the wires is hanging behind the panel??


The wires with spade connectors did come off as I was removing the element - I cannot remember from last time how many wires there were - I fished two out through the hole.

Everything else is working fine, fan spins, the red thermostat bulb comes on - be nice to see a wiring diagram but never saw one on the Neff website.
I'll probably end up removing the oven - but will be the weekend.

Thanks for the replies.
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by thelearner » Sat Jan 28, 2017 12:32 pm

So have had oven out today and there was a 3rd wire with disconnected spade connector in the back.
This was a single wire and comes from the oven selector switch at far left on front of control panel.This wire is white with black colour running through.
There are 2 spade connectors with double wires.
The first one is connected to connections at the same place as the main oven element.
The second double wire has a feed from the oven thermostat, and goes through what I am guessing is the oven thermal protection switch, which I checked and has continuity.
I have photos which I will try to mark up and post later.

What I need now is some help in which spade connectors are connected together on one side of the element.
I don't want to power up the oven again until this is clarified.

Be grateful if anyone can help - I have now colour coded the wires with insulating tape.
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by thelearner » Sat Jan 28, 2017 12:33 pm

Have looked for a wiring diagram online and cannot find one anywhere.
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by timdowning » Sat Jan 28, 2017 12:41 pm

What are the colours of the three wires you've got?
One is black & white
Two is ?
Three is ?
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by thelearner » Sat Jan 28, 2017 1:06 pm

Image
hopefully that link will show a photo.
The double wire going through thermal cutout marked with yellow tape.
Single wire from oven selector - black tape.
Other wire - white tape.
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by thelearner » Sat Jan 28, 2017 1:15 pm

Image
This is where the black and white wire comes from - the oven selector in the control panel
Image
both the double wires are the same colour - the second wire both wires come from the spade connectors under the big block above the fan in the bottom oven (I never really looked at it to see what it was)
Image
the other wire starts here which I assume is probe in oven, goes to spade for element, then goes to thermal cut out then I think the other wire from thermal cut out goes up to control panel somewhere
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by thelearner » Wed Feb 15, 2017 2:33 pm

I have been away at work for last two weeks.
I had connected the white/black single wire to one side of the element, and the two double wire connectors to the other side of the element.

Decided to try it today - all working.

Thanks for the help - hopefully this will help others.
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by thelearner » Thu Feb 16, 2017 10:25 am

I should have added that before I went away I tried a different combination, and tripped the breaker.
I think nowadays with the sensitive fault current detection on 17th edition electrical consumer units, this probably saved the oven from damage.

I did email Neff requesting advice or a wiring diagram - no reply. I had just recently bought a Neff dishwasher, but not so sure I will buy their products in the future. I don't think it's unreasonable for manufacturers to publish wiring diagrams.
Different sized spade connectors at each side of the element would also make it foolproof.
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by Martin » Thu Feb 16, 2017 4:40 pm

thelearner wrote:Different sized spade connectors at each side of the element would also make it foolproof.


.....and more susceptible to overheating and burning out.
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by thelearner » Fri Feb 17, 2017 10:24 am

Martin wrote:
thelearner wrote:Different sized spade connectors at each side of the element would also make it foolproof.


.....and more susceptible to overheating and burning out.


why - if they are fully rated? If they have to be the same size, they could use colour coded ones. It's hardly rocket science.
Anyway, guess wires are colour coded - fixed now.
Fan elements do seem to fail regularly. Hopefully this post will help others.

Thanks to electrofix and TimDowning. You were both spot on.
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